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[原创] deflation的不可能性

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发表于 2008-10-27 06:36 PM | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式


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发表于 2008-10-27 06:44 PM | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2008-10-27 06:56 PM | 显示全部楼层
You don't understand the power of deflation. When it really arrives, prepare for your own doom.
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 楼主| 发表于 2008-10-27 07:01 PM | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2008-10-27 08:49 PM | 显示全部楼层
 
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发表于 2008-10-27 10:42 PM | 显示全部楼层
The problem is credit frozen. Bank just takes the money and do not lend. The 10:1 is only 2:1 at best. 25% unemployment is the result of deflation during 1929-1934. You are right that superinflation could come back. But first, we have to get out of deflation. A lot of companies start laying off people now.If I have all cash and retire with good Federal pension and do not own house, I am for deflation. My son might not have a job though.
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发表于 2008-10-27 11:11 PM | 显示全部楼层

回复 4# ns5000 的帖子

Brother, don't have to reply to that idiot. He is a crazy dog attacking everyone who holds a different view from him. [ 本帖最后由 revolver 于 2008-10-28 00:13 编辑 ]
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发表于 2008-10-28 12:19 AM | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 ns5000 于 2008-10-27 19:36 发表 最近不少大佬在谈论进入deflation的问题。这个东东好像怪得很,越懂经济的人越怕,整个一个世界末日将要到来的感觉。偶们不懂经济的人,怎么看也觉得什么东西都大减价,至少总有好的一面,总比一夜间你的积蓄付诸东流 ...


Deflation occured only once to a developed country in the past a couple of decades. And it was Japan. The government printed tons of money and  ran a huge deficit for a 'lost decade'. But the problem was only mitigated after 10 years effort. Deflation is at least as destructive, if not more, to the economy than inflation.
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发表于 2008-10-28 12:21 AM | 显示全部楼层
fed is doing everything to avoid deflation, doesn't mean it will work. When de-leveraging happens, everything goes into feedback cycle, very hard to stop (just like a bubble is hard to pop on the way up).
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发表于 2008-10-28 01:23 AM | 显示全部楼层

简单说一下,现在货币总量是增加不少,按理应该引起通胀。这个只有在流通性不变的前提下才成立。

流通性恶化,短期内引起通缩,流通性改善后,由于货币总量已经增加,会引起恶心通胀!

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发表于 2008-10-28 02:13 AM | 显示全部楼层

economists generally don't believe another depression is likely.

Poll: 60% say depression 'likely' Poll finds 6 of 10 believe a depression is somewhat or very likely - seeing 25% unemployed and millions homeless and hungry. By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.com senior writer Last Updated: October 6, 2008: 4:23 PM ET NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Nearly six out of ten Americans believe another economic depression is likely, according to a poll released Monday. The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll, which surveyed more than 1,000 Americans over the weekend, cited common measures of the economic pain of the 1930s: * 25% unemployment rate; * widespread bank failures; and * millions of Americans homeless and unable to feed their families. In response, 21% of those polled say that a depression is very likely and another 38% say it is somewhat likely. The poll also found that 29% feel a depression is not very likely, while 13% believe it is not likely at all. But economists, even many who feel current economic risks are dire, generally don't believe another depression is likely. "We've been in a recession all year and it's going to get worse," said Anirvan Banerji, director of research for the Economic Cycle Research Institute. "We're going from a relatively mild recession to a more painful recession. But we're a long, long way from a depression." A survey taken last week by the National Association of Business Economists asked members what would happen if the $700 billion bailout that passed Friday fails to fix frozen credit markets. The consensus forecast of those economists was that, even if continued problems choke off credit to businesses and consumers, unemployment would rise to just 7% in the second quarter of next year . Other economists recently contacted by CNNMoney.com said that the unemployment rate could rise as high as 10% to 12% next year if the bailout does not work. While that could be roughly double the current 6.1% unemployment rate, it would be only half of the worst rate seen in the Great Depression of the 1930s. What defines a depression? Banerji's worst-case scenario sees unemployment topping out at just under 10%. That's one of the key reasons that he thinks a true depression is unlikely. "A depression rate would imply more than doubling or tripling the current unemployment rate," he said. The Great Depression also saw the gross domestic product, the broad measure of the nation's economic activity, plunge by 13% in 1932. The NABE survey forecast that GDP will drop 1.1% in the fourth quarter of 2008 if the bailout does not get credit flowing again, and another 0.5% in the first quarter of next year. The economists surveyed by CNNMoney.com said they could foresee a drop of 2% to 4% in a worst-case scenario. Part of the reason for the far less severe economic pain expected this time are the social safety net programs - including Social Security, unemployment insurance and insurance on bank deposits - that were not in place at the start of the Great Depression. And experts believe that the Federal Reserve and other officials made many policy mistakes during the Depression that are not likely to be repeated. In fact, the Fed at that time kept lending tight, while today's Fed is pumping hundreds of billions of dollars into the banking system to try to restart lending and spur economic activity. "The fact is that central banks around the globe will move heaven and earth to avoid having a depression," said Banerji. Still, other findings of the CNN poll were more in agreement with those of top economists. The poll found 84% of Americans polled believe that economic conditions are somewhat or very poor, with a majority, 53%, now believing the economy is very poor. That's not far off from the two-thirds of NABE economists who believe the economy is now in a recession or will enter one by the end of this year. The view of the economy is much bleaker than a comparable CNN/USA Today poll found during the last economic downturn at the start of the decade. During the recession of 2001, only one-third to one-half of those polled felt economic conditions were somewhat or very poor. Unemployment continued to rise after the recession ended in late 2001, and not surprisingly the view of the economy continued to deteriorate. But at its worst, in a February 2003 poll, only two-thirds of those surveyed described the economy as somewhat or very poor. Just 25% of those surveyed at that time described the economy as very poor, or less than half the level who believe that today. In addition, the CNN poll released Monday found that 36% believe the current crisis in the nation's financial sector will affect them immediately, while another 19% expect to be affected within the next year. Only 8% believe they will never be affected by the crisis. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke have frequently warned in recent weeks that the credit crisis would be felt on Main Street, not just on Wall Street. And Banerji said that the increasingly grim view of the economy will by itself lead to cutbacks in spending by both consumers and businesses. That in turn will result in greater job losses and more economic pain. "The fact that the majority of people believe we are going into a depression ensures that the recession will get worse," Banerji said. To top of page First Published: October 6, 2008: 1:18 PM ET
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发表于 2008-10-28 02:40 AM | 显示全部楼层
拼命印钱?

美国欠着那么多债,现在是AAA,印完后就CCC,和巴基斯坦一样了,美元真的是P纸也不如了
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发表于 2008-10-28 02:43 AM | 显示全部楼层
资产,商品,房市,股市的暴跌,LIBOR暴涨,流动性紧张,已经是deflation的初期症状,为什么视而不见,说不可能呢?
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发表于 2008-10-28 03:22 AM | 显示全部楼层
when are most economists ever correct ?
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发表于 2008-10-28 04:55 AM | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 ns5000 于 2008-10-27 19:36 发表 最近不少大佬在谈论进入deflation的问题。这个东东好像怪得很,越懂经济的人越怕,整个一个世界末日将要到来的感觉。偶们不懂经济的人,怎么看也觉得什么东西都大减价,至少总有好的一面,总比一夜间你的积蓄付诸东流 ...


deflation 对搞经济的人就是灾难啊,他们不能像以前一样大把分花红了。对于咱们普通不搞经济又有存款的人,就未必是坏事。

所以搞经济的人,务必就是要把通货紧缩说成老虎@山下的女人是老虎@,吓唬纳税人赶紧掏腰包给搞经济的人发红利,以免碰到老虎。
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发表于 2008-10-28 04:56 AM | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 H_T 于 2008-10-28 04:22 发表 when are most economists ever correct ?


他们只对他们自己的钱包正确,对社会经济和大众利益,他们是不管的。
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发表于 2008-10-28 06:25 AM | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2008-10-28 08:47 AM | 显示全部楼层

The key is no country in the world is free of printing money. China did tremendous spending since 1998, but the consequence now is China central government carries over 5 trillion RMB domestic debt alone, and these money need to be repaid. The good news is Chinese have very high savings rate, so China government can pay back gradually. As a matter of fact, I believe China government still have some room to borrow and spend in the next a few difficult years.

 

US government surely can spend more, but only if they can finance the spending. Nobody in their right mind will seek printing money as a way of "financing", or else it would bear the risk of currency collapsing.

[ 本帖最后由 svntn 于 2008-10-28 09:48 编辑 ]
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发表于 2008-10-28 10:12 AM | 显示全部楼层

原帖由 CoolMax 于 2008-10-28 02:23 发表 简单说一下,现在货币总量是增加不少,按理应该引起通胀。这个只有在流通性不变的前提下才成立。 流通性恶化,短期内引起通缩,流通性改善后,由于货币总量已经增加,会引起恶心通胀!

Well said

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发表于 2008-10-28 10:14 AM | 显示全部楼层

原帖由 xiaobailong 于 2008-10-28 05:55 发表 deflation 对搞经济的人就是灾难啊,他们不能像以前一样大把分花红了。对于咱们普通不搞经济又有存款的人,就未必是坏事。所以搞经济的人,务必就是要把通货紧缩说成老虎@山下的女人是老虎@,吓唬纳税人赶紧掏腰包 ...

Good point

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