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Value Investing

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 楼主| 发表于 2012-12-12 03:23 PM | 显示全部楼层


水明善 发表于 2012-12-12 12:31 PM
congratulation for your 1st investment house purchase.
I am always surprised by your in-depth da ...


Even though I have family members that smoke, non of them use smokeless tobacco.

So I got curious and searched it online...and......it is disgusting...not any healthier than regular tobacco...I was fooled by the name...
smokeless tobacco is actually chewing tobacco...people chew on it...they don't swallow the tobacco or and liquid...they spit out the liquid...still...disgusting...-_-! I like the stock...but I don't like the product...

I mistaken smokeless tobacco with electronic cigarette...there are studies that said electronic cigarette are healthier than traditional ones.
Tax is lower for electronic cigarettes so in some places they are cheaper...but how addictive is it and will it eat into traditional cigarette market need to be seen...
e-cigarettes are around for some years now, but I don't see it gaining a very large market...at least not yet...

The reason  why MO is trying to diversify is because US tobacco market is shrinking...this is the main worry with the company...Tobacco market has been shrinking for years, MO is still doing fine. Partly because shrinking unit sale comes with increasing price.
US market shrink because
1) Government force cigarette prices to go up so people smoke less.
2) heavy advertisement against smoking

As an investor, we have to decide how much does the shrinking market will hurt MO.

This is US government report on Cigarette: http://www.ftc.gov/os/2012/09/120921cigarettereport.pdf
I extract out the unit consumption table below
cigarettes unit sale.JPG

cigarettes unit sale2.JPG
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发表于 2012-12-13 10:17 PM | 显示全部楼层
MO does face a shrinking market, this is my real concern. PM is relatively at a better position... I did know the story about acquisition to make smokeless tobacco + wine, well, it seems not so "smokeless".
As to wine, MO is still at early stage, this is why I was more interested in DEO.

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 楼主| 发表于 2012-12-20 11:53 AM | 显示全部楼层
heheboy 发表于 2012-11-5 12:52 PM
I think they have about 0.5 mil agents worldwide, their customers are mostly the ones without bank a ...

Holy Crap! Laoda, can you share your analysis on NYX? When you mentioned NYX, did you have the impression that it is a good acquisition target?
You mentioned WU, it's a good value, you mentioned NYX, ICE want to buy NYX with a fat premium! NYX is up 32.18% now. Congrats on your gains :)
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发表于 2012-12-20 10:25 PM | 显示全部楼层
jamesmith 发表于 2012-12-20 11:53 AM
Holy Crap! Laoda, can you share your analysis on NYX? When you mentioned NYX, did you have the imp ...

I was more or less sure on NYX under value, so i have been accumulating shares of NYX in range of $23 to $25 ,also with sold puts...gain is ok for me. WU I am still accumulating....

I have a list of stocks i have trade and watch for very long, so i tend to know their behavior to certain degree...recently i have been loading some GNW, started back in $5, i hope it can pull back for me to load more...

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 楼主| 发表于 2012-12-21 06:50 PM | 显示全部楼层
As value investors, we should thank the fiscal cliff. It caused many companies to issue special dividends !  Look at stocks with special dividends, it gives us a good chance.

If a company is investing excess cash and generating above average returns, of course it would be better for it to hold the cash. For example, we would want Berkshire Hathaway controlled by 30, 40 year old Buffett to hold excess cash for future investment, and we would want HP to payout excess cash rather than wasting them on over priced acquisitions.
But when we value a company, a company's ability to generate future income is much more important than excess cash. The cash just pumps up the company's value and force us to pay a higher price. By issuing special dividends out, we are able to buy these companies with more discount.

For example, if we estimated a company's value to be $100, and it is selling at $50 now. That gives us 50% discount. BUT if the company have $200 cash, and market gives no discount to cash, that will make the company's selling price be $250 with an intrinsic value of $300, only a 16.7% discount. (We are using cash as an example of asset generating low return. The same can be said with PPE or low return sub divisions. These can be a dilution of value )
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发表于 2012-12-31 01:00 PM | 显示全部楼层
Hi James, you might want to look into PAY, it provides veriphone credit process system uses at many places.

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 楼主| 发表于 2013-1-8 09:56 AM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 jamesmith 于 2013-1-8 10:11 AM 编辑
heheboy 发表于 2012-12-31 01:00 PM
Hi James, you might want to look into PAY, it provides veriphone credit process system uses at many  ...


very interesting indeed. Thank you for sharing!
Looking into it and learning about payment companies...
I am not sure if Square and Intuit GoPayment can be a disruptive technology in the field...
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发表于 2013-1-8 03:09 PM | 显示全部楼层
jamesmith 发表于 2012-12-12 02:23 PM
Even though I have family members that smoke, non of them use smokeless tobacco.

So I got cu ...


from 24/7 Wall St.

If there is one sector of the stock market that consistently draws scrutiny, it is big tobacco. After all, it is always under the threat of punitive action from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), municipalities, past cases and other threats to the business. The most obvious is the fact that smokers are quitting the habit in record numbers. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), smoking is the number one preventable cause of death. With the odds seemingly stacked against them, can the big tobacco companies continue to flourish? Analysts at UBS A.G. (NYSE: UBS) think so.


For the first time in 10 years, tobacco underperformed the broader market and consumer staples in 2012. The shadow of rising taxes on dividends contributed to that underperformance, especially in the fourth quarter as portfolio managers rotated out of many dividend stocks. But if the team at UBS is right, tobacco pricing should improve in 2013 and help drive share prices higher.

Volatility always exists in the tobacco arena. This year alone, the FDA is expected to consider reports from advisory committees on as many as four separate areas: 1) menthol cigarettes, 2) new product development, 3) regulations on other tobacco products, and 4) likely review of e-cigarettes.

In terms of price performance, the top UBS pick is Lorillard Inc. (NYSE: LO). This maker of top-selling menthol cigarette Newport closed Friday at $117.87 and could be poised for a 27% rise to $141. However, UBS favors cigarette giant Altria Group Inc. (NYSE: MO), makers of the iconic Marlboro brand, which closed Friday at $32.54, as their number one overall pick. The estimate for Altria is an 11% price gain in 2013 to $36.12.

So why not go for the bigger upside in Lorillard? After more than a year of waiting and debate, the FDA is expected to publish its report on menthol cigarettes in the first quarter of this year. While it remains very unlikely that the agency will ban menthol, the chatter ahead of the report could push down the share price.

Both stocks are a total return investor’s dream, raising their dividends almost every year. Lorillard currently pays a 6.2% dividend quarterly. Altria pays a 5.40% dividend quarterly. In addition to capital appreciation and dividends, investors also can sell covered calls on their stocks.

There is always a degree of risk in owning stocks where the product can ultimately kill the consumer. Tobacco companies frequently are targeted in individual and class-action lawsuits. But there is one hidden aspect in these stocks that tends to balance that risk. The Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement (MSA) was entered in November of 1998 between the four largest tobacco companies and 46 states. The companies agreed to pay a $206 billion settlement over the next 25 years. This is in addition to lower annual payments in perpetuity for medical-related costs to the states.

How does this hedge the risk? The states in their never-ending search for revenue packaged large parts of these settlements and amortized the future payments in the form of tobacco bonds. Should litigation become too onerous on the companies, they can always threaten bankruptcy. If they filed bankruptcy and defaulted on their settlements, the states that already sold the bonds could have severe funding issues. Without the settlement payments, the states individual bonds could default. That would not bode well for states already facing current funding issues.

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 楼主| 发表于 2013-1-15 01:49 PM | 显示全部楼层
Added AAPL at $486 today
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 楼主| 发表于 2013-1-25 04:31 PM | 显示全部楼层
I still have mine Apple shares, average entry price is around $540...

I bought it because of valuation. Balance sheet is superb, and it's making incredible amount of money, tons of cash on hand, low P/E, good dividend at >2% with lots of room to grow because of low payout ratio.

Apple also better moat than Nokia,RIM,Sony...it has the ability to charge higher price than competitor, it has superior design, best brand name and arguably the best ecosys to lock in customers.

I believe Apple will do fine in the short term with following catalysis:

1) China Mobile and Chinese market to drive revenue growth to cover margin going down

2) buy back or dividend increase. Apple already announced to use about 40 Billion for buy back, with current market cap, this is almost 10%. There are plenty of room to increase both buy back and dividend.

In 3 to 4 months, TMobile will be selling iphone, this could easily add 2 to 3 million iphone sales. (AT$T sold 8 million, Verizon sold 6 million in last quarter).

I know all the above reasons, that's why I bought it...BUT...

The biggest problem I see with Apple is the lost of Steve Jobs. Can Apple deliver the next big thing without him? I try to think of creative companies that lost their founder, most don't fair well...

Cook is probably a good business men and a great supply guy, ive is an incredible designer, but without Jobs, who's gonna be the one to come up with new products? (not upgrades of current product, but new products that opens new markets)

I am pretty confident Apple will be fine in the short term, but if I ask myself what will Apple be like at 10 years or 20 years. I have no idea -_-!
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发表于 2013-1-25 10:35 PM | 显示全部楼层
good analysis on apple.

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 楼主| 发表于 2013-2-1 11:09 AM | 显示全部楼层
hellofriend 发表于 2013-1-25 10:35 PM
good analysis on apple.

Thanks :)

It is expected that next generation iPad will use similar design as iPad mini. In order to make iPad mini so thin, Apple used thin-film type touch screen technology, this will likely to be used for iPad 5th gen as well.

I am no expert at this, but Digitime has an article about it: http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20130131PD212.html

"The supply chain for Apple's next-generation 9.7-inch iPad will be similar to the iPad mini's, with Japan-based Nitto expected to supply thin-film materials and Nissha Printing touch screen modules, noted the sources. Taiwan-based TPK will be responsible for the device's lamination while LG Display (LGD) and Sharp will provide panels"

It would be interesting and potentially rewarding to look at these suppliers:

6988 Japan Nitto Denko
7915 Japan Nissha Printing
3673 Taiwan TPK
6753 Japan Sharp
034220 Korea LG

Three of them have ADR trading in the US
NDEKY for Nitto Denko
SHCAY for Sharp
LPL for LG
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 楼主| 发表于 2013-2-19 05:41 AM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 jamesmith 于 2013-2-19 05:58 AM 编辑

UMAM

Sustainable seafood?
When I read Boomerang by Michael Lewis, the section about Iceland's privatizing and securitizing fishing ground caught my interest. (It is an fun and easy read, http://ishare.iask.sina.com.cn/f/21586847.html)
If there's some way to say that these fishes belongs to me(privatize) and if there's a way to measure every year, how many fishes are there and how many new fishes will be born and how much they will grow and have a way to allow this to be traded in the market(securitize). This could be a profitable business.
This is what UMAM does to Northern Bluefin tuna(very expensive and consider one of the best for sashimi and sushi) and Pacific bluefin tuna. They catch, grow and sell them!
To read about Northern Bluefin (http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/鮪魚, or for english: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_bluefin_tuna)

To my naive thinking, price is the result of demand and supply and demand for fish (for UMAM, bluefin tuna) should be "relatively" constant, especially for bluefin tuna because it is becoming rare. Thus the main focus would be supply. From my brief research, our world's bluefin tuna population is becoming smaller and smaller due to overfishing! some even said they might go extinct in our lifetime if we don't do something to protect them. When supply goes low, price rises and IF UMAM is able to maintain a high supply by farming bluefin, they can make a profit, this is their whole business idea.
Briefly reading their financial, its clear that they are not big enough to have benefit of scale. A significant portion of their biomass comes from catching, and about 12% to 16% of the quarterly amount is from growing (biomass is the term they use to calculate the amount of fish they their farm). They are aware and increased the size of their farm by a large amount in last year.
This is a volatile tiny cap stock.
Without going too much into financial, let's talk about the risk first.
1) business is highly seasonal (catching farming season with very little revenue, and harvesting season with large revenue), thus the stock is very volatile
2) company is under a good amount of debt, only 32.3% of total asset is equity, another way to put it is debt to equity ratio is pretty high
3) management change, CEO resigned recently, and I am not sure about management team's ability
4) concentrated in a small number of customer (6 customers) account for 99% of sale, and mostly japanese customer (bluefin is used to make expensive sushi/sashimi). This can be risky, usually you would want a business to have many many customers, so if some are in trouble, you have others to cover your ass.
5) currency risk, most customers are Japanese, Japanese Yen's change can effect business.
6) trading volume is very small, because this is a very small company

Now let's look at its pro
1) Bluefin tuna's population is reduced significantly from 1990 to now due to overfishing, this would cause it's price to go up and would require some sustainable way of supply, which is exactly what UMAM is doing.
2) UMAM has been making profit in 2010 to 2012. It's revenue and net income grew considerably.
3) UMAM's farming capacity grew considerably to try taking more advantage from farming rather than depend on catching
4) price has fallen >36% from high, with P/E of 16.69
SEC fillings here (http://www.umamiseafood.com/investors/sec-filings_new)

This is a volatile long term investment. It could be a fun idea to put small amount of money into, but in this stage I would not invest too much in it. UMAM has not proven itself yet.
The price has fallen a good amount recently because 1)usually price falls during catching/farming season), 2) CEO change, 3) delayed to report December quarter earning. The price was low enough and the business idea interests me, so I started a small position.
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 楼主| 发表于 2013-2-19 11:56 AM | 显示全部楼层
Found a interesting blog post about Mental Models: http://www.farnamstreetblog.com/mental-models/
Tragedy of the Common is one of the Mental Models mentioned (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons).
In economics, the tragedy of the commons is the depletion of a shared resource by individuals, acting independently and rationally according to each one's self-interest, despite their understanding that depleting the common resource is contrary to the group's long-term best interests.
This explains many modern world problems such as overfishing, forest disappearing, water & air pollution.
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 楼主| 发表于 2013-2-21 10:55 AM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 jamesmith 于 2013-2-21 01:35 PM 编辑
heheboy 发表于 2012-12-31 01:00 PM
Hi James, you might want to look into PAY, it provides veriphone credit process system uses at many  ...


Looks like PAY is effected by new competition and new technology much more than what people thought.
It released estimate for EPS and down huge today.
After all, it doesn't have a good enough sustainable competitive advantage in the business, and when new changes in the market can knock it down very quickly.

here is the announcement of preliminary financial results.
http://seekingalpha.com/news-art ... cal-quarter-of-2013

Average analyst estimate is 492.46M revenue and EPS of 0.73.
By skimming at the results:
VeriFone expects to report Q1 non-GAAP net revenues in the range of $425 million to $430 million and Q1 GAAP net revenues in the range of $424 million to $428 million. VeriFone expects to report non-GAAP net income per share between $0.47 and $0.50 and GAAP net income per share between $0.07 and $0.10.

Revenue definitely took a hit, but the EPS is a huge miss. This is probably due to it is spending aggresively to update its hardware and technology to compete. My worry is PAY doesn't have a deep pocket and competition will get worse. Let's see what the earning reports says on March 4th to have learn more about the situation

New square system, an even more direct competition to PAY on brick and mortar stores:
http://www.streetinsider.com/Ins ... System/8115353.html

With more and more mobile devices (android and iOS) being sold, it is extremely easy for people to try out square. It is like having a free tailwind.
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 楼主| 发表于 2013-2-21 01:26 PM | 显示全部楼层
I reduced 50% of my AAPL position :(
Not because of my views changed for Apple, but because I want to have high cash level so I can work on other interesting opportunities.
Let's see if I am a good 反指 -_-!

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 楼主| 发表于 2013-3-4 10:41 AM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 jamesmith 于 2013-3-4 12:25 PM 编辑

Berkshire Hathaway Annual Letter to Shareholders 2012 is out.
http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2012ltr.pdf

Warren is on CNBC recently :)
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100515743/page/1

Among other topics covered during the three hours:

- Buffett's advice to Apple CEO Tim Cook: Ignore pressure to return to cash to shareholders and "run the business in such a manner as to create the most value over the next five to ten years."

- Buffett said Berkshire plans to hold its Bank of America warrants through the end of their 9-year lifetime.

- Buffett repeated his belief that big-city newspapers have a "far worse" business model than local community papers. When asked if he has any interest in buying the Chicago Tribune or L.A. Times from the privately-held Tribune Company, he responded, "No thanks."

- In his annual letter to shareholders released Friday, Buffett said he was looking for someone who is bearish on Berkshire to ask questions during May's annual meeting. Today he revealed that Doug Kass will be taking on that role.


More on the Apple part:

Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook should work on building his company's value, rather than worrying about pushing the stock price up on a daily basis, Buffett said in an appearance on CNBC's "Squawk Box" on Monday, as summarized by Apple 2.0. Buffett commented on Apple as part of a three-hour appearance on the program.

The Berkshire CEO admitted that he talked with late Apple co-founder Steve Jobs about what Apple could do with its cash. He believes the best use of Apple's $137-billion-and-growing cash pile is to buy back stock at a reduced price.

"If you could buy dollar bills for 80 cents, it's a very good thing to do," Buffett said.

Beyond that, he believes Apple's best strategy is to simply run its business well. If Cook can continue to do that, Buffett believes shares of AAPL will respond accordingly.

As for hedge fund manager David Einhorn's push for Apple to offer "iPref" preferred shares, Buffett believes the best thing for Cook and Apple to do is ignore it. He noted that his own Berkshire has lost 50 percent of its stock price four times in its history.

"When that happens, if you've got money, you buy it," he said. "You just keep working on building the value."

And while he admitted Apple may have "too much" cash, he said one reason for that could be the fact that Apple has not yet been taxed on two-thirds of it, which is kept overseas.

While Buffett doesn't own shares of Apple, he has been positive on the company's outlook for some time. In an interview back in 2010, Buffett said he believed Jobs had done a "terrific job" at the helm of Apple.

Apple and Berkshire Hathaway also shared the spotlight last week, when both companies appeared in the top 10 on Fortune's "Most Admired" list of companies. Apple took the top spot on the annual list, while Berskhire came in 8th.
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 楼主| 发表于 2013-3-5 11:20 AM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 jamesmith 于 2013-3-5 12:50 PM 编辑

Started position in BAM and considering to start a position in MCO. Really wanted to add some Apple back at near $420 yesterday...I am suck a sucker of Apple shares... -_-!

I decided to wait this time. I know that I need to work on position size management...
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 楼主| 发表于 2013-3-14 10:34 AM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 jamesmith 于 2013-3-14 10:35 AM 编辑
jamesmith 发表于 2013-2-21 10:55 AM
Looks like PAY is effected by new competition and new technology much more than what people thou ...


PayPal yesterday announced an iPad version of its iPhone point-of-sale solution app "PayPal Here", boasting larger screen real estate and additional features like connecting to a cash register.

TechCrunch notes that the app marks yet another milestone in the expansion of the company's PayPal Here service, which debuted in the UK just two weeks ago and is now available in five countries. PayPal took to its blog to detail the new app:

    In listening to our customers we learned that while all love the convenience, security and functionality of PayPal Here, some prefer the larger screen of the iPad.

    So with that in mind we went about designing a new version of the PayPal Here app that would work seamlessly and beautifully with the iPad. Some of the new features include:

    - App designed specifically for the iPad
    - Ability to scan an item’s barcode for faster checkout
    - Wirelessly connect to a cash drawer and printer
    - Track sales activity in “Daily Summary” reporting



The app also utilizes eBay's Red Laser technology so that merchants can scan items they sell into their "item lists" and allows for a "fast checkout experience" for customers.

PayPal also points out that the app is designed for small businesses that want an easily scalable mobile payment solution. Users can also get a free card reader that pairs with the app and iPad so that it can read credit cards.
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 楼主| 发表于 2013-3-14 10:37 AM | 显示全部楼层
jamesmith 发表于 2013-3-14 10:34 AM
PayPal yesterday announced an iPad version of its iPhone point-of-sale solution app "PayPal Here ...

The POS (point of sale) competition is getting more crowded. PayPal join the scene with PayPal Here for iPad.
The winner will have huge gain, however it is unclear who will win at the moment and too hard for me to analyze.

However there's something we can be sure of, no matter which POS system wins out, they will all involve Visa, Master, American Express card payments.
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