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[原创] 《青蛙抄个股》

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 楼主| 发表于 2012-12-10 09:44 PM | 显示全部楼层


I might change my discipline, when I find a better new one.
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发表于 2012-12-11 02:26 AM | 显示全部楼层
wsjboy 发表于 2012-12-10 06:57 PM
Make your own decision.

I sold it because I have a discipline, which let me sell it if anyth ...

谢谢分享你的纪律。让我看到不一样的炒股方法。买卖还要看每个人持股时间的长短。时间框不同,买卖的点位也会不一样。我现在正在学习做波段,减少交易次数。还希望各位老大多多赐教。
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发表于 2012-12-11 03:29 PM | 显示全部楼层
大家还好吗?最近holiday season.先去做二道贩子赚钱,都没什么时间看股票了。等holiday season过来再来和大家一起战斗。

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 楼主| 发表于 2012-12-11 03:44 PM | 显示全部楼层
vlo 发表于 2012-12-11 04:29 PM
大家还好吗?最近holiday season.先去做二道贩子赚钱,都没什么时间看股票了。等holiday season过来再来和大 ...

wow, you are so capable!
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 楼主| 发表于 2012-12-11 04:31 PM | 显示全部楼层
Bought ABX, BPZ

点评

最近看您买了好几个金矿股,您看好这类股票?  发表于 2012-12-11 04:55 PM
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 楼主| 发表于 2012-12-11 05:19 PM | 显示全部楼层
"Newbull  最近看您买了好几个金矿股,您看好这类股票?  发表于 2012-12-11 05:55 PM"

What have you traded recently?
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 楼主| 发表于 2012-12-11 05:22 PM | 显示全部楼层
sold AZN and STJ, both w/ good gains.
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发表于 2012-12-11 05:39 PM | 显示全部楼层
wsjboy 发表于 2012-12-11 05:19 PM
"Newbull  最近看您买了好几个金矿股,您看好这类股票?  发表于 2012-12-11 05:55 PM"

What have you t ...

wfc btu and pot.昨天跟了infa 。不太明白金股和金矿股的关系,您能给我们科普一下吗?


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 楼主| 发表于 2012-12-11 06:53 PM | 显示全部楼层
我买是因为图形,我也不懂两者关系。

大家一起做研究吧,作为家庭作业,明天或者后天大家贴出来,大家发表意见怎么样?
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发表于 2012-12-11 10:43 PM | 显示全部楼层
wsjboy 发表于 2012-12-11 06:53 PM
我买是因为图形,我也不懂两者关系。

大家一起做研究吧,作为家庭作业,明天或者后天大家贴出来,大家发 ...

我的理解是金矿挖掘大部分是fixed cost,所以金价和金矿股总体来说正相关。金价飙了金矿股应该也会飙,但是金价调整时期就很难说了,金矿股回调的幅度比金价要大,但是也有泥沙俱下的情况,就是好股坏股一起倒霉。我看wsjboy的ABX基本面还是很不错的,这轮也跌得很多。是街上对金价长期不看好吗?

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 楼主| 发表于 2012-12-11 11:34 PM | 显示全部楼层
The Fallacy Of Owning Gold Mining Equities
November 21, 2012 Brennan Basnicki
Ample research supports the notion that the addition of gold and other commodities to one's portfolio produces a higher efficient frontier -- or more plainly stated, a higher expected return with lower risk. Unfortunately, many portfolios have been constructed to include commodity exposure through the inclusion of commodity-related equities, especially with gold. While this approach may have worked at lower gold prices, it has failed since early 2011, when gold traded above $1400. Not only has this approach failed, but gold miners have been one of the poorest performing sectors. The failure of this approach of portfolio optimization is most easily seen through the following charts:

    The first chart shows how poorly gold miners (GDX) and junior gold miners (GDXJ) have performed compared to gold (GLD). Note that while gold is up over 25%, junior gold miners are down 45%:
    The idea that one can gain exposure to gold through mining companies clearly has not held. A look at the correlation between the miners and gold shows the failure of this historic relationship. The below chart shows the correlation over the last 20, 50, and 100 weeks between gold and gold miners. Note that while although the correlation remains high over the shortest (20 week) period, over the long term (100 weeks), the correlation has trended to zero:
    The case is even worse for the junior gold miners ETF. The correlation moved into negative territory:

Why has this relationship changed? I don't have the answer to that, but one potential source of the discrepancy is that as gold reached historical highs at the end of 2010, mining companies may have increased hedging activities. This would obviously limit their ability to participate in any gold appreciation above that level ($1400).
The eccentric hedge fun manager Hugh Hendry makes a different argument for further weakness in gold mining stocks, having stated that:
"There is no rationale for owning gold mining equities. It is as close as you get to insanity. The risk premium goes up when the gold price goes up. Societies are more envious of your gold at $3000 than at $300. And there is no valuation argument that protects you against the risk of confiscation."
Basically, the more expensive gold is, the higher the probability that gold mines will be nationalized. This leads to a higher risk premium required for gold miners and accordingly, a lower stock price when completing any sort of fundamental valuation.
The paradox is that if nationalization continues, the market ends up with less supply: a public government will not be nearly as efficient as a private company. Less supply means higher prices and accordingly, a higher probability of further nationalization. And while nationalization may only be possible in developing countries, higher tax rates or government royalties are equally likely in developed countries. Recent examples of such actions include the ongoing dispute over Kyrgyzstan's gold and Venezuela's move to nationalize gold just over a year ago.
While I'm sure there may be evidence to counter this argument, the failure of miners to participate in gold's appreciation above $1400 does support this. I am not an expert in gold, however, I have spent significant time studying technical analysis. One thing you learn early in technical analysis -- and probably one of the most important rules is that "the trend is your friend" -- simply implying that you always want to position yourself alongside the trend. Well, the trend has been towards less and less correlation and underperformance for gold miners. Hendry himself is long gold and short gold miners. Until new evidence is available of a change in this relationship, it is likely that the current trend will persist.
To return to portfolio management, it should be clear at this point that the addition of gold-related equities does not raise the efficient frontier (higher return with lower risk). One should look at allocating a portion of their portfolio to outright gold exposure, either in the form of a gold ETF such as GLD, or even physical ownership.
It looks like Goldmember had it right in the 2002 "Austin Powers" movie, when he rather enthusiastically stated, "I love Goldddd." Interestingly enough, gold was under $300/ounce back then, and 2002 marked the breakout of the 10-year secular bull trend gold remains in today.
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 楼主| 发表于 2012-12-11 11:36 PM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 wsjboy 于 2012-12-12 01:09 AM 编辑

The above article is toally against owning gold miner stocks. Here is a chart which support his opinions made by myself, since it is clearer than his. 3 year weekly chart.

gdx.jpg
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 楼主| 发表于 2012-12-11 11:39 PM | 显示全部楼层
Here are some opinions disagree with him:

Morrison International Acco... Comments (135)

I think its just my view of economics, let me explain quickly.

From a supply and demand view, gold is basically the highest demanded by far and the supply is melting, literally, all of the jewelry, teeth, spoons and such into gold and that has held the price low I believe. As it increases it meets a multiple of resistance. I am trying to say that basically if it goes up 10% it will have a much larger correction force (the bringing of more supply I guess) from traders ringing the register and if it went to 11% it would increase even more than the 9%-10% move. But once the gold starts getting hoarded, and it will, the supply multiple will decrease and decrease. The rising of the price causes panic and people buy gold, the last of the un-serious investors ring out and gold will be owned by foreign central banks, financial institutions, the IMF, hedge funds, mutual funds, federal governments, smart state treasuries, large dollar jewelry makers will face a liquidity trap, as banks will freeze lines of credit and those without cash to buy enough to keep their operations at break even through the high price period fall apart. This is just a small theory of mine after watching all the we buy gold people.

Now that is simply one part, part 2 is simply inflation. Gold is very correlated with inflation and the fear of inflation. If either go up than gold takes off. Let the CPI report the actual inflation rate (I think its been about 4% yoy past 4 years) and watch gold take off from 1700 to 2000 overnight. The five largest currencies in the world have basically said they will devalue their currency before you can devalue yours. If one guy wants to devalue his currency it disrupts the valuation of its pairs. America was fast and put a ton of money out there. Now the others are trying to catch up. The fed wants this money to slowly seep back into the real economy from banks balance sheets into growth & acquisition, start up, auto and capital goods loans. These loans have higher risk and that's something banks cannot take with BASEL 3 making all but Wells Fargo worried.

part 3 is about political craziness. I wrote a good comment on that earlier. Please go to my profile and look on my comments for that if you would like.

Thanks, Mike.


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 楼主| 发表于 2012-12-11 11:46 PM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 wsjboy 于 2012-12-12 01:10 AM 编辑

A daily chart of GDX, with GFI/ABX on the chart, GFI/ABX are obviously beat harder than GDX. 1 year daily chart.

gdx_daily.jpg
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 楼主| 发表于 2012-12-11 11:49 PM | 显示全部楼层
I should do the above work before purchasing them. But introducing research ino this thread is a good thing. Late is way better than never. Agree?
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发表于 2012-12-11 11:56 PM | 显示全部楼层
这里有一段摘录 http://www.hutong9.net/forum.php ... &extra=page%3D1

  格罗指出,极端宽松的货币政策和央行购买黄金的两大趋势当然会推高金价。

  “我认为,明年我们很可能会看到2000美元关口被突破,黄金牛市要真正终结,恐怕要涨到2400美元才行。”他说,1980年代的高点接近800美元,而综合通货膨胀因素调整之后,大约就是2400美元。

  格罗的基金持有一些黄金,但大部分资金是投入黄金矿业类股。他强调:“投资者应该通过一系列不同的渠道(投资黄金)。”

  黄金矿业类股的表现一直落后黄金本身,黄金投资的普及,尤其是最大的黄金ETF之一SPDR Gold Trust“已经使得人人可以持有黄金”,这样就削弱了矿业公司股票在散户和机构投资者眼中的魅力。

  黄金矿业公司的问题在于运营和资本成本居高不下,缺乏劳动力,以及当地政府往往想要分一杯羹等。

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发表于 2012-12-12 12:59 AM | 显示全部楼层
我们在这里就是多学习各方面的知识,不断提高自己,谢谢wsjboy 和 vol 。
按我的理解,经济好坏与金价成反比例关系。如果美国经济好转,黄金就会走低。另一方面金价又和石油成正比关系,石油价格上涨意味着通货会随之而来,金价也会随之上涨。黄金还和美元有着密切关系。因为金价是以美元定价的,美元贬值势必导致金价上涨。

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发表于 2012-12-12 10:26 AM | 显示全部楼层
沙特削减石油产量至一年低点

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 楼主| 发表于 2012-12-12 10:41 AM | 显示全部楼层
I wish more people join the research, comment, ask questions, and contribute your own pick, etc. Thanks!
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发表于 2012-12-12 10:54 AM | 显示全部楼层
infa sold half

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