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[转贴] 俺现在真的怀疑,天安舰是美国自导自演的

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发表于 2010-5-23 07:38 AM | 显示全部楼层


It is not funny. I can't believe that someone even does not know how evil North Korea government is.

At least, Chinese government knows it very well.

It absolutely has nothing to do with "天安舰".
ranchgirl 发表于 2010-5-23 00:54


你看看标题再写这句话也不晚啊。不敢直接就事论事地讨论啊?是不是你也认为这次韩国和美国栽赃朝鲜呢?
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发表于 2010-5-23 10:29 AM | 显示全部楼层
真相自在人心.韩国美国说是朝鲜干的,朝鲜说是栽赃.相信谁,又是一个屁股决定脑袋的事,屁股坐在哪边,脑袋就相信哪边的话.

事情到目前为止,有赢家有输家:

赢家一:韩国.韩国政府改变过去十年的阳光政策,主张对朝鲜强硬.这一做法在国际上得不到赞同,在国内缺乏民意支持.天安舰事件使局面完全改变.再有,它的宿敌朝鲜,在国际上形象遭到重创.

赢家二:美国.美国面临在韩国移交军事指挥权,在日本,面对撤军的民间压力.这一事件,对此可有相当的改观.在国际上,孤立了自己的敌人.当年韩国民航误闯苏联禁空遭击落,美国的敌人苏联,在国际社会成了邪恶帝国;今天的天安舰事件,让更多人认同朝鲜为流氓国家.美国在联合国提议的对朝鲜制裁,将会得到更多的支持.

输家一:朝鲜.国际形象恶化,偷偷摸摸地袭击别人,还死不承认.在国际上,坐实了美国给它的标签:流氓国家;在国内,对其士气也是一大打击.

输家二:中国.事情一发生,韩国媒体就开始紧盯中国,现在美国和西方也一致指责中国.中国在国际社会成了没有是非,不讲道德,只顾自身利益,袒护杀人犯的国家.中国陪着朝鲜成了受道德谴责的对象.中国什么也没做,坐在家里被人给抽了一大嘴巴,当然是输家.

现在事情还没有结束.韩国美国还在努力扩大战果,逼迫中国谴责朝鲜,停止对朝援助,在联合国支持,至少是弃权,对朝鲜制裁.真要达到这一目的,那就是美韩的大胜.其结果就是朝鲜崩溃,难民潮冲击中国;韩国接管朝鲜,美军推进到中朝边境,导弹防御系统建到鸭绿江边.对美韩来说,在战场上死十万士兵也得不到这样的结果.
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发表于 2010-5-23 12:32 PM | 显示全部楼层
真相自在人心.韩国美国说是朝鲜干的,朝鲜说是栽赃.相信谁,又是一个屁股决定脑袋的事,屁股坐在哪边,脑袋就相 ...
阿丙 发表于 2010-5-23 12:29



    现在已经不是美国只手遮天轻易就能混淆黑白的时候了。  朝鲜已经说了,要去检查韩国的证据。如果韩国不让朝鲜检查,那就说明心虚,接下来说话也就没那么容易了。别的国家,打酱油居多,每个国家都是自己一大摊子烂事,难道真有兴趣来管韩国这种事情?六方会谈都没他们什么事。

而六方会谈里的国家,屁股坐哪边,早就确定了,有没有这件事都不会改变。
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发表于 2010-5-23 12:58 PM | 显示全部楼层
Probably, most people here think China is on the side of North Korea.

I don't think so at all.

China's position is very subtle, you need to distinguish the surface or the actual.

North Korea nuclear warhead is pointing to the Washington DC? I think it is very possible it is pointing to Beijing or Shenyang. The reason, it is closer, easier, more important, it can gain more financial/material/food benefit from China.

That is why I said

North Korea government: a real cancer tumor, unpredictable, no cure.

Nobody knows what will happen to it.
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发表于 2010-5-23 01:04 PM | 显示全部楼层
US hit天安舰?
North Korea hit 天安舰?

China hit 天安舰?
Japan Hit 天安舰?
South Korea hit 天安舰?
Russian hit 天安舰?
Taiwan hit 天安舰?
Some other country hit 天安舰?

Ghost hit 天安舰?

If it is a multi-choice question, what is your answer by reasoning, not by the fact.
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发表于 2010-5-23 01:07 PM | 显示全部楼层
North Korea government is not our friend, but we have to pretend it is our friend.
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发表于 2010-5-23 01:33 PM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 ranchgirl 于 2010-5-23 15:35 编辑

回复 1# google

What Chinese said:

All Eyes on China in North Korea Torpedo Case

(May 20) -- World leaders harshly condemned North Korea today after a multinational probe squarely blamed the rogue regime for sinking a South Korean military ship in March and killing 46 sailors. But China, the world power with the most influence over the so-called "hermit kingdom," had a noticeably tepid response.

In Beijing's only public remarks, Cui Tiankai, China's deputy foreign minister, called the sinking of the South Korean warship Cheonan "unfortunate" and did not acknowledge North Korea's responsibility. The White House on Wednesday characterized it as "an act of aggression."

The crisis over North Korea has moved to the top of Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton's agenda as she leaves today for a trip to Japan, China and South Korea.
South Korean Marines stand guard on Baengnyeong Island, South Korea, near the border with North Korea, on May 20, 2010.
Kim Ju-sung, Yonhap / AP
South Korean Marines stand guard near the border with North Korea on Thursday. Many world leaders condemned North Korea after investigators found it had sunk a South Korean ship in March. But China failed to acknowledge North Korea's role.

China's response in the days ahead will be watched closely for signs of whether it's willing to join most of the world community in taking a harder line against North Korea.

But its cool reaction so far highlights China's special relationship with the otherwise isolated North Korean regime, as well as China's fears of instability on its borders and in the region.

Beijing is North Korea's key economic partner and treaty ally, giving it the most leverage on Pyongyang of any world power.

"China wants regional stability and peace in northeast Asia, and it wants to take things step by step," said Gong Keyu, an expert on China's relations with North Korea at the Shanghai Institute of International Studies. "That's why China didn't say too much about" the results of the probe.

"China wants to take a fair look and make things clearer, and then we can respond," she said.

China angered some in South Korea by waiting weeks to make any public statement on the March 26 ship sinking, even as other world leaders offered their condolences for the massive loss of life.

Gong said that China may send delegates, possibly along with North Korea, to South Korea in the coming days and weeks to seek clarification on the results of the probe. She said she personally is still not convinced that North Korea intended to strike such a deadly blow.

"I don't see a lot of reasons why North Korea would insist on doing this," she said. "Maybe they made a mistake. One possibility is they wanted to fire a torpedo to scare South Korea but didn't think it would be very, very serious."

She compared Pyongyang to "a boy who did something wrong, but didn't know it would be so serious, like breaking a glass -- he didn't know it would make his parents so upset."

South Korea, under pressure from hardliners at home to respond militarily to what they view as an act of war, is expected instead to take the issue to the United Nations Security Council. China will be key to that process, since it holds a Security Council veto and so can block any action.

But Gong said that China may use the Security Council's current focus on the Iranian nuclear issue as an "excuse" not to discuss the ship-sinking issue right away.

Another Chinese expert on North Korea, Zhang Liangui, told the Telegraph that China could be pushed to take sides at the U.N.

"South Korea's submission of its report to the U.N. will clearly force China into making a stance, and this will be a challenge," Zhang told the Telegraph. "This will be handled by the foreign ministry, but my view is that China, in accordance with its rising status as a major country, should not go against the rest of the world, but should consider its interests in line with the majority."

So why is China so loathe to turn the heat up on its loose-cannon neighbor?

A recent report by the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington security think tank, gave several reasons.

China wants to preserve the status quo of two Koreas, and fears that instability in North Korea could hurt its northeast provinces. Beijing also fears that a crisis could lead to a massive flood of refugees into northeast China, and could result in a hostile North Korea on its border -- or a beefed-up South Korean and U.S. military presence just next door.

"The Chinese want to avoid a hostile relationship with their neighbor," Bonnie Glaser, one of the report's authors, said at a recent CSIS forum. "They believe that relationship remains exceptionally important."

Gong, the Chinese scholar, said China was trying to get North Korea to pursue economic reforms that could make it more self-sufficient, such as those followed by China itself since the late 1970s.

"We want to show North Korea that we are a very good model -- 'You can follow me,'" Gong said.

Meanwhile, she said the South Korean ship-sinking crisis could actually be an opportunity for the U.S. and China. "This is a very good chance for China and the U.S. to understand each other better," Gong said. "So I think things will be much clearer in the coming days and weeks."
Filed under: World
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发表于 2010-5-23 01:37 PM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 ranchgirl 于 2010-5-23 15:39 编辑

Maybe they made a mistake. One possibility is they wanted to fire a torpedo to scare South Korea but didn't think it would be very, very serious."

In opinion of Chinese Government, who sinked the ship is clear, but we still on the side of North Korea.  
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发表于 2010-5-24 07:10 AM | 显示全部楼层
ranchgirl 是明白人
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发表于 2010-5-24 07:16 AM | 显示全部楼层
ranchgirl 是明白人
jiumentidu 发表于 2010-5-24 09:10


她自己确实明白,她说得很清楚,她的答案是“ by reasoning, not by the fact.”   所以为了利益,就不顾事实了。

有了这句话,还有后面大写的那些Maybe,  possibility, 你觉得她的帖子和事实有关系吗? 没有了事实,还有什么讨论的基础?还有什么讨论的意义? 她说中国政府和朝鲜不友好,也完全是出于想象,不是出于事实。这样的帖子,对读者来说有意义吗?
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发表于 2010-5-24 07:18 AM | 显示全部楼层
ranchgirl想给大家洗脑,可是提不出事实。呵呵。
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发表于 2010-5-24 11:11 AM | 显示全部楼层
ranchgirl想给大家洗脑,可是提不出事实。呵呵。
padme 发表于 2010-5-24 09:18


哈哈哈,WHATEVER................

文革阴魂不散。。。
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发表于 2010-5-24 11:13 AM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 ranchgirl 于 2010-5-24 13:16 编辑

Gong Keyu, an expert on China's relations with North Korea at the Shanghai Institute of International Studies.

She IS NOT RANCHGIRL....
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发表于 2010-5-24 11:18 AM | 显示全部楼层
Maybe they made a mistake. One possibility is they wanted to fire a torpedo to scare South Korea but didn't think it would be very, very serious.

Ms. Gong Keyu said, not reanchgirl said so.
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发表于 2010-5-24 11:19 AM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 ranchgirl 于 2010-5-24 13:22 编辑

The comedy continues.................

可能再来一顶高帽子。。。
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 楼主| 发表于 2010-5-24 11:21 AM | 显示全部楼层
俺很后悔开了这个贴
再吵没有什么意义,谁都别指望说服对方,立场决定一切,你什么立场,你就会选择相信什么

所以谁都别认为自己拥有真理,这个世界根本没有真理,或者,你的真理不是我的真理,你的正义不是我的正义,你的事实不是我的事实
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发表于 2010-5-24 11:29 AM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 ranchgirl 于 2010-5-24 13:33 编辑

回复 36# google

立场决定一切,你什么立场,你就会选择相信什么


No, I disagree. At least, it is not my way.

If I find out I am wrong, I will accept the fact, and admit I am wrong. I have done that many times. I am not always correct.

However, people are different. I am not you or someone else...

sigh!
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 楼主| 发表于 2010-5-24 11:33 AM | 显示全部楼层
回复  google



No, I disagree. At least, it is not my way.

If I find out I am wrong, I will ...
ranchgirl 发表于 2010-5-24 13:29


你可以disagree,但我也可以把你的意见disagree
人类从有历史,就有战争,打了几千年,死了多少人,只要人类存在一天,这个就会继续下去
看看人性方面的书,你就会理解了
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发表于 2010-5-24 11:35 AM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 padme 于 2010-5-24 13:38 编辑
哈哈哈,WHATEVER................

文革阴魂不散。。。
ranchgirl 发表于 2010-5-24 13:11



    是你先说大家被洗脑的。我现在是以彼之道还之彼身啊。呵呵。
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发表于 2010-5-24 11:36 AM | 显示全部楼层
回复 38# google

Then "we agree to disagree."

Thanks!
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