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发表于 2009-6-1 04:00 PM | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式


本帖最后由 Lynxx 于 2009-6-1 17:12 编辑

Saratoga is one of the most expensive towns in Santa Clara County, which is the largest part of the Silicon Valley, which may be one of the biggest housing bubbles in California.
It looks like that the nose-diving of housing price is over.
The data was from Zillow.
housing price.PNG
发表于 2009-6-1 04:10 PM | 显示全部楼层
Too early to say that!
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发表于 2009-6-1 04:13 PM | 显示全部楼层
Thanks!
FYI,

House in DC, price is up for  less 300k house since this year.
                      price is  still down  for  more 300k house.

The area may different?
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发表于 2009-6-1 04:16 PM | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2009-6-1 04:28 PM | 显示全部楼层
1# Lynxx


hmm, time for CoolMax laoda to change his 住房市场不见底,股票市场不到底, kaka
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发表于 2009-6-1 04:43 PM | 显示全部楼层
Saratoga is one of the most expensive towns in Santa Clara County, which is the largest part of the Silicon Valley, which may be one of the biggest housing bubbles in California.
It looks like that t ...
Lynxx 发表于 2009-6-1 17:00



You can not use Saratoga as a house example.

Saratoga is a small and expensive town, you say it drops <20% from high, while in many(I should say most) areas of California, price drops at least 30%, some area are close to 50%.
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发表于 2009-6-1 04:45 PM | 显示全部楼层
5# sinnet


Agree. Coolmax to change?
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发表于 2009-6-1 04:51 PM | 显示全部楼层
You can not use Saratoga as a house example.

Saratoga is a small and expensive town, you say it drops
dara 发表于 2009-6-1 01:43 PM


agree
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发表于 2009-6-1 04:56 PM | 显示全部楼层
Satatoga 的交投量小了点。
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 楼主| 发表于 2009-6-1 05:01 PM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 Lynxx 于 2009-6-1 18:03 编辑
You can not use Saratoga as a house example.

Saratoga is a small and expensive town, you say it drops
dara 发表于 2009-6-1 17:43

The reason why I chose Saratoga was that it's a very expensive town. And the assumption is that expensive towns are the last to drop and first to recover (maybe I am wrong on this).
The curve for Santa Clara County should be more accurate statistically. Its tail is flat.
I do not want to make a point on how much it has dropped. I am trying to see the direction.
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发表于 2009-6-1 05:02 PM | 显示全部楼层
With 20 billion $ deficit, Arnold has to cut CA work force.   Next year's deficit will be billions as usual, and there is no work force to cut to reduce the deficit, then Arnold has to raise taxes.

Then people will move out of CA to avoid high taxes, and Arnold will collect even less taxes and results in more deficit.   

Malicious cycle has just begun.  And you think the CA housing bubble is going to start again?   Even if this time the bubble is pumping up again, how long do you expect it will last?   1 year, 1 month or 1 week?
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发表于 2009-6-1 05:17 PM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 mikeqc 于 2009-6-1 18:19 编辑

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/ar ... 4/07/MNL516UG90.DTL

A vast "shadow inventory" of foreclosed homes that banks are holding off the market could wreak havoc with the already battered real estate sector, industry observers say.


Lenders nationwide are sitting on hundreds of thousands of foreclosed homes that they have not resold or listed for sale, according to numerous data sources. And foreclosures, which banks unload at fire-sale prices, are a major factor driving home values down.

"We believe there are in the neighborhood of 600,000 properties nationwide that banks have repossessed but not put on the market," said Rick Sharga, vice president of RealtyTrac, which compiles nationwide statistics on foreclosures. "California probably represents 80,000 of those homes. It could be disastrous if the banks suddenly flooded the market with those distressed properties. You'd have further depreciation and carnage."

In a recent study, RealtyTrac compared its database of bank-repossessed homes to MLS listings of for-sale homes in four states, including California. It found a significant disparity - only 30 percent of the foreclosures were listed for sale in the Multiple Listing Service. The remainder is known in the industry as "shadow inventory."

"There is a real danger that there is much more (foreclosure) inventory than we are measuring," said Celia Chen, director of housing economics at Moody's Economy.com in Pennsylvania. "Eventually those homes will have to be dealt with. If they're all put on the market, that will add more inventory to an already bloated market and drive down home prices even more."

More than one-third locally
In the Bay Area, a Chronicle analysis of data from San Diego's MDA DataQuick shows that more than one-third of foreclosures are in shadow territory - that is, they are not registering in county records as having been resold.

For the 26 months from January 2007 through February 2009, banks repossessed 51,602 homes and condos in the nine-county Bay Area, according to DataQuick. Yet in the same period, only 30,823 foreclosures were resold, leaving about 20,000 bank repos unaccounted for.

Turnaround usually quick
Realtors say foreclosures generally go on the market a month or two after the bank takes title and then sell fairly quickly, often getting an accepted offer within a week or two of being listed and then closing escrow within 30 days. That means that foreclosures should register as being resold within three months.

But taking the foreclosures in any given month or selection of months and looking at what happened three months later also reveals a big gap between what banks took back and what they resold.

Tom Kelly, a spokesman for banking giant Chase in Chicago, said the bank sells foreclosed homes in a timely fashion.

"We try not to be in the business of owning homes," he said. "Our goal is to get them back on the market as quickly as possible. We want to maximize what we sell them for and yet do it quickly."

Kelly was at a loss to explain the shadow inventory phenomenon other than the quantities involved.

"The inventory might be growing because there is just a lot of volume coming in. That would not surprise me," he said.

Locally, the monthly number of foreclosures has decreased since peaking at 4,321 in August 2007. That has allowed foreclosure resales to start closing the gap.

Most observers say the recent fall-off in foreclosures came because California and many banks implemented foreclosure moratoriums in the fall, not because the problem has diminished.

Only 65.5 percent resold
A second DataQuick study of all Bay Area homes repossessed by banks in the 18 months ending January 2009 tracked how many of those homes had resold by mid-March. It found that 65.5 percent had resold. Discovery Bay's ForeclosureRadar.com compared its database of Bay Area foreclosures to MLS listings for the past 120 days and found that fewer than one-fifth of the foreclosures showed up as for-sale listings.

"Foreclosure numbers are artificially depressed," said CEO Sean O'Toole. He puts California's shadow inventory at about 100,000 homes.

So why aren't banks selling off their foreclosures?

Observers say several factors are at work.

-- The "pig in the python": Digesting all those foreclosures takes awhile. It's time-consuming to get a home vacant, clean and ready for sale. "The system is overwhelmed by the volume," Sharga said. "In a normal market, there are 160,000 (foreclosures for sale nationwide) over the course of a year. Right now, there are about 80,000 every month."

-- Accounting sleight-of-hand: Lenders could be deferring sales to put off having to acknowledge the actual extent of their loss. "With banks in the stress they're in, I don't think they're anxious to show losses in assets on their balance sheets," O'Toole said.

-- Slowing the free-fall: Banks might be strategically holding back some foreclosures so prices don't fall as fast. "They want to be careful about not releasing them too quickly so they don't drive prices down and hurt the values," O'Toole said.

Besides the shadow foreclosures, yet another wave of distressed properties is in the pipeline. These are homes with delinquent payments for which the banks appear to be prolonging the foreclosure process. Some of that could be because they're negotiating with homeowners about loan modifications or other ways to keep them in the home. But banks also could be deliberately foot-dragging for the same three reasons listed above.

"The problem is that no one knows how extensive (the shadow inventory) is," said Patrick Newport, U.S. economist with the Massachusetts research firm Global Insight. "It's a wild card. If it's a really big number, you'll see prices drop a lot more and deeper problems for the financial system."

Missing foreclosures
Only 65.5 percent of all Bay Area homes repossessed by banks in the 18 months ended January 2009 had been resold by mid-March. This study looked at the same homes over time, not an aggregate of all foreclosures.


County % foreclosures resold % foreclosures unsold
Alameda 58.6% 41.4%
Contra Costa 69.8% 30.2%
Marin 66.9% 33.1%
Napa 66.0% 34.0%
San Francisco 49.8% 50.2%
San Mateo 61.5% 38.5%
Santa Clara 62.0% 38.0%
Solano 67.5% 32.5%
Sonoma 75.3% 24.7%
Bay Area 65.5% 34.5%

Source: MDA DataQuick
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发表于 2009-6-1 05:17 PM | 显示全部楼层
I don't think Saratoga is representative. That's not for the so-called "middle-class".
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发表于 2009-6-1 05:18 PM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 mikeqc 于 2009-6-1 18:19 编辑

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/ar ... L&feed=rss.news

Signs of more trouble ahead for housing market

Warren Buffett and Alan Greenspan say the housing market is near bottom.

Peppy real estate agents and gloomy stock-market traders alike eagerly embrace that supposition. Wall Street is so hungry for good news that stocks rallied at the barest hint of upbeat indicators several times this month.

But an array of serious pending issues undercuts the turnaround theorists.

To be sure, an end to the precipitous collapse that triggered a foreclosure avalanche and wiped out more than $6 trillion of home equity nationwide, not to mention setting off a worldwide economic collapse, would be something to celebrate. And several recent market barometers - diminishing inventory, increasing buyer competition, slowing price depreciation, rising builder confidence - lend credence to the idea that real estate could soon rebound.

A healthy housing market has a decent balance between supply and demand. While at a quick glance those components appear to be stabilizing, on closer look there are numerous factors that are likely to weaken demand and deluge the market with supply in coming months.

On the demand side, the surge in joblessness, still-high home prices, the credit crunch and a dearth of move-up buyers cut into the pool of potential home buyers.

On the supply side, an assortment of factors seems poised to trigger new waves of foreclosures that will continue to bloat inventory. They include the expiration of foreclosure moratoriums, more underwater "walk-away" homeowners, pending recasts of option ARM loans, rising delinquencies in prime and Alt-A loans, and soft sales of high-end homes.

Here is a rundown of key problems that could continue to undercut real estate.

Demand still softens
-- Rising unemployment. It doesn't take an economist to realize people will not buy homes if they're worried they might lose their jobs.

"Employment is crucially important," said Peter Morici, a professor at the University of Maryland business school. "We lost more than 600,000 private-sector jobs last month. That means the housing market is not going to turn up yet for a while."

Unemployment also will spur supply. While the first wave of foreclosed-upon homeowners comprised people who could not afford their homes from the get-go, as more people lose their jobs, they are likely to lose their homes because they no longer have enough income to make the payments.

-- No "move-up" buyers. In a normal real estate market, about 80 percent of buyers are "moving up" or "moving across" - people who sell one home before buying another, said Mark Hanson, principal of Walnut Creek's the Field Check Group, a mortgage consultant. Remaining purchasers are split between first-time buyers and investors.

In today's market, about half of buyers are first-timers and a third are investors, leaving just 15 percent of what he calls "organic" buyers. Those first-timers and investors all troll for bargain-basement foreclosures - leaving few buyers who are interested in the homes being sold by "Ma and Pa Homeowner." That, in turn, leaves Ma and Pa unable to move up to a nicer home. "The organic seller is left out in the cold," he said.

It also could impact supply down the road, when all those pent-up sellers finally decide to put their homes on the market.

-- Tight credit. Even people who do want to buy a home can't necessarily find someone willing to give them a mortgage. The standards of 20 percent down payment; solid, provable income; and good credit are back in force. While that more-stringent underwriting represents a return to classic values that should avoid future delinquencies, it leaves quite a few potential borrowers out in the cold. Most notably, self-employed workers - even ones with high income, such as doctors - are finding a less-cordial reception from lenders.

-- Homes still overpriced. Home values have plunged nationwide. The authoritative Case-Shiller index shows prices nationwide at 158, down from a spring 2006 peak of 226. (That compares to a base value of 100 in January 2000.)

So that means homes are now affordable, right? Not so, say many analysts who believe prices are still wildly inflated compared to historic appreciation rates. From 1950 to 2000, home prices grew 4.4 percent a year, modestly outpacing inflation, said Andrew Schiff, a spokesman for Euro Pacific Capital in Connecticut. Following that metric, the Case-Shiller index should be at 132. "We're still way above where we should be in a normal market," he said.

Supply likely to surge
-- Foreclosure moratoriums end. Major lenders temporarily halted foreclosures late last year and early this year in anticipation of President Obama's housing rescue plan. In addition, California enacted a new law this fall that slowed down foreclosures. That means the foreclosure rate was artificially depressed over the past several months. The moratoriums have now expired.

The net result is likely to be fresh batches of foreclosures from all those deferred troubled loans. California statistics illustrate the problem. According to research firm MDA DataQuick, mortgage default notices - the first step in the foreclosure process - hit record highs in the first quarter, implying that, within months, foreclosures will resurge.

-- Shadow inventory. Banks appear to be sitting on a vast inventory of homes that they have repossessed but not yet listed for sale. As previously reported in The Chronicle, this shadow foreclosure inventory could number in the hundreds of thousands nationwide. In addition, observers say banks appear to be deliberately delaying foreclosures, for example, not yet sending notices of default to homeowners who are months behind on their mortgages. All those properties eventually will have to hit the market, and, like all foreclosures, are likely to sell at cut-rate prices, driving down home values.

-- Walk-away underwater homeowners. The number of people who owe more than their home is worth continues to rise. Almost 22 percent of all mortgage holders were underwater by March, according to real estate site Zillow.com. That's spurring a phenomenon of "walk-away" homeowners - people who choose foreclosure because they don't want to pay off an upside-down asset.

Matt Bording and Mangala Abeysinghe are an example. They have poured love and energy into their three-bedroom Richmond home; the garden alone is a work of art. Bording has a steady job as an ICU nurse, Abeysinghe, a nurse in her native Sri Lanka, should readily find work once she passes the U.S. licensing exam. They made a down payment and can afford their monthly payments.

On paper, they sound like ideal borrowers. But as their home value plummeted, leaving them underwater by more than $200,000, they decided to walk away. They stopped paying their mortgage in October, and are still living in the home, although the lender sold it at a foreclosure auction last week.

Bording described the decision as "a bit of brinkmanship and bravado, along with fear of being financially trapped. I'm wondering about the possibility of many more prime borrowers doing the same thing, causing some kind of ripple in the economy."

-- Loan modification shortfalls. Modifying borrower's mortgages to make them more affordable is a cornerstone of foreclosure prevention. But to date, most such efforts have simply deferred foreclosure, rather than providing a permanent fix. An authoritative study by the Comptroller of the Currency found that more than half of modified loans end up delinquent again within months. However, the study was done before the Obama administration's mortgage mod plan came into play. The jury is still out on how effective it will be at preventing foreclosures.

-- Option ARM, Alt-A time bombs. Two categories of loans used for higher-end homes are emerging as the next trouble spots, as foreclosure contagion spreads beyond subprime. Delinquencies are rising for Alt-A loans given to people with good credit who could not document their income. Meanwhile, millions of option ARMs, or adjustable rate mortgages in which borrowers can choose to start off making minimum payments that don't even cover the interest, are expected to start resetting next summer. At reset, borrowers suddenly must make sharply higher payments, which can trigger foreclosures.

The underwater issue comes into play here, too: People who owe more than their home is worth find the door slammed shut on refinancing their way out of trouble.

"Option ARM and Alt-A products will be the next big wave of foreclosures," said Jeffrey Taylor, a forensic accountant with Digital Risk LLC, which provides risk mitigation services for financial firms. "Many of those (borrowers) reached a little further than they should have. With the economy deteriorating, will those people be able to afford those houses?"

-- High end taking a hit. Until recently, most of the market activity and price drops have been among lower-cost homes. Homes under $350,000 have had the most severe price drops, while those above $750,000 have remained relatively stable. That appears to be changing, as foreclosure woes spread to the upper end. The difficulty of getting "jumbo" loans to buy pricey houses has exacerbated the situation to the point where unsold inventories of high-end homes are swelling.

"The mid- to upper-end housing market is sitting on the exact precipice that the lower-end market was sitting on in early 2008," Hanson said.
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 楼主| 发表于 2009-6-1 05:39 PM | 显示全部楼层

I am a little surprised that people tend to only see Saratoga and ignore Santa Clara County.  
So I post San Jose here. San Jose is the largest part of Santa Clara County, its curve is the same as the County's curve.
san jose.PNG
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发表于 2009-6-1 05:46 PM | 显示全部楼层

I am a little surprised that people tend to only see Saratoga and ignore Santa Clara County.  
So I post San Jose here. San Jose is the largest part of Santa Clara County, its curve is the s ...
Lynxx 发表于 2009-6-1 18:39



I am 101% sure San Jose's house price is down every month in Jan. Feb., March. 2009,

In April-May, the price did not drop much mainly are caused by:
1. low interest. (MAIN reason)
2. Banks are holding foreclosure since March.

Today Interest rate is up almost 0.5% from its low, put it into house, that means at lest 10% for mortgage payment.
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发表于 2009-6-1 05:58 PM | 显示全部楼层

I am a little surprised that people tend to only see Saratoga and ignore Santa Clara County.  
So I post San Jose here. San Jose is the largest part of Santa Clara County, its curve is the s ...
Lynxx 发表于 2009-6-1 18:39


Can you put dotted lines for each season, so that would be easier to compare data with seasonal factors.
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发表于 2009-6-1 06:51 PM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 CoolMax 于 2009-6-1 19:55 编辑

I am a little surprised that people tend to only see Saratoga and ignore Santa Clara County.  
So I post San Jose here. San Jose is the largest part of Santa Clara County, its curve is the s ...
Lynxx 发表于 2009-6-1 06:39 PM


I put my eyes on housing market few years ago before the buble burst.
I choose same model in same community to compare the house price change in defferent area.

I didn't see price stopping decline yet. periold.

You can't say house market is bottom by only using some website's chart.
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发表于 2009-6-1 07:33 PM | 显示全部楼层
hahahaha
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发表于 2009-6-1 07:54 PM | 显示全部楼层
I put my eyes on housing market few years ago before the buble burst.
I choose same model in same community to compare the house price change in defferent area.

I didn't see price stopping dec ...
CoolMax 发表于 2009-6-1 19:51



I saw the house bubble in 2006-2007, but I did not know that it could cause such a huge problem for banks.

Because I never saw a foreclose house for sale by my eyes before 2005 since I came to U.S. in 199x,  (Foreclosure house is a new word to me)

LOL, I am serious.
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