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CoolMax你终于看不懂了?

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发表于 2009-5-4 07:41 PM | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式


本帖最后由 walstudio 于 2009-5-4 20:46 编辑

我就是那个4月中发文说你的TA太教课书的,现在另外3个礼拜过去,市场还是没有按照你想的走,
原文在这, http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/Stock/31804907.html

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发信人: walstudio (午夜未眠人), 信区: Stock
标 题: 看了胡同CoolMax的中期小结,说两句
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Apr 14 09:12:35 2009)
看了胡同CoolMax的中期小结,
http://hutong9.com/viewthread.php?tid=44520&extra=page%3D1

不得不说,太多人将TA完全使用过度了(所谓过犹不及)。
CoolMax每天画图,精神可嘉,但是有点固守一个模式的味道。
从3月6日喊No panic,no Truth。No panic,no Bottom。喊了很久,
一直到4月初才完全说bull确定。中间不知道误导了多少人(包括他自己)多少次。

老实说,他用的所有指标,95%我以前都用过,什么BB,MACD,RSI,CPC
但现在看来,还是最简单的均线最实用。当然,这需要一个过程,
由繁到简,相当于一个把厚书读薄的过程。

那么,回过头来看,这次Rally应该怎么解读呢? 如果大家
记得,在3月6日左右,我曾经用周线的图代替日线图解释过
大家(包括CoolMax)一直等的No panic, no panic sell off,
no bottom可能已经不适用了,后来又解释过RSI这个指标,
如果放在牛市和熊市是不一样的(目前为止我没看到
其他论坛有人提到这一点的,算是我的独门暗器,哈哈),
RSI超买而不下跌,基本可以确定牛市(Sucker rally也算牛市)已定,
这个比CoolMax估计早了2个礼拜。

花花绿绿的TA大家可以继续到胡同看,我上一个简单的,
日线上用5/13,保守点可以用5/10日均线,5日均线
从来没有下穿过13(或10日)均线,只要你不期望
吃掉整条鱼,完全可以在5日上穿的时候买进,
5日下穿的时候卖出。所谓大道至简.
(补充一下,这里涉及到有trend还是没trend的问题,见下文)

Disclaimer:我自己不是牛人,发这个帖子本意也
不是挑战某某牛人,只是提醒一下大家可以参考
别人,但是不要“依赖”别人。这次Rally我猜到了开头,
没猜到结局,整个过程操作很不好。操作上我还需要
很大的提高,这是题外话了。
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 楼主| 发表于 2009-5-4 07:44 PM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 walstudio 于 2009-5-4 20:45 编辑

越来越多人觉得"TA不work"了,不但是你们,很多"专业选手"都觉得,
看今天Bloomber的文章,Stock Charts Fail Forecast Test in Complete S&P
(不过如果读完后如果真正思考一下,其实这篇文章是有漏动的,不知道有没有人发现出来)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stock Charts Fail Forecast Test in Complete S&P Miss (Update1)
Share | Email | Print | A A A

By Michael Tsang and Eric Martin

May 4 (Bloomberg) -- John Bollinger, inventor of the “Bollinger bands” system of predicting stock movements with price charts, says technical analysis works.

“I don’t know what people are saying when they say somehow indicators have broken down,” Bollinger, president of Bollinger Capital Management, said in a telephone interview from Manhattan Beach, California. “It’s like somehow saying streetlights don’t work anymore. As long as people obey them, streetlights work.”

Ever since the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index peaked in October 2007, six of eight strategies -- which are supposed to make money whether stocks rise or fall -- failed, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. As the bear market erased $11 trillion from the value of U.S. equities, buy and sell signals from those six technical indicators produced losses of as much as 49 percent, the data show.

“Technical analysis on its own as a discipline does not work,” said Diane Garnick, the New York-based investment strategist at Invesco Ltd., which oversees $348 billion. Using it in isolation is “the fastest way to lose money,” she said.

Of the eight strategies, stochastics, Bollinger bands, relative strength, commodity channels, parabolic systems and the Williams %R indicator generated buy and sell signals that resulted in losses between the S&P 500’s peak of 1,565.15 on Oct. 9, 2007, and its March 9 trough, the data show. They did worse as the index then rallied 30 percent.

No Help

The models failed to protect investors last year, when the S&P 500 had its biggest decline since 1937, as price swings reached a record, according to William Stone, chief investment strategist at PNC Financial Services Group Inc.’s wealth management unit, which oversees $96 billion in Philadelphia.

The S&P 500 gained 1.3 percent last week. Futures on the index added 0.4 percent as of 1:25 p.m. in Tokyo.

Bollinger bands are designed to alert investors when a security rises too high or falls too low by comparing its price to the average level over the past 20 days. If the stock gains or drops enough from the average -- two standard deviations -- a turnaround may be at hand, Bollinger’s system says. Moves of two standard deviations are defined as occurring 5 percent of the time or less in a statistical model.

Financial Stocks

When used to determine when to buy or bet against S&P 500 financial stocks, the technique produced a gain through mid- September of $28,588 on a $100,000 investment, when banks retreated 37 percent, data compiled by Bloomberg show.

Profits evaporated in less than a month and turned into a loss of $64,388 as the strategy failed to trigger any sell signals during the rest of the bear market, when banks and brokerages plummeted 72 percent.

John Bollinger says that methodology is too simple and his bands should be used in conjunction with data on trading volume to create “set-ups” and “confirmations” for investment decisions. His fund, which aims to profit in any environment, made money sometimes during the bear market. He declined to comment on specific returns.

Stochastics predicts a security’s movement based on how close its price is to the highest or lowest levels. Stochastics would have left anyone who started with $100,000 at the October 2007 peak with $75,881 by March 9, a 24 percent loss, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

False Buys

The trades were undone by the buy signals, which on eight occasions suggested that the S&P 500 had fallen too far, too fast, based on data compiled by Bloomberg that exclude trading costs and unexpected price fluctuations at the moment of the trade. Stochastics told traders to buy on Oct. 6 last year, three weeks after Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.’s bankruptcy. The S&P 500 lost 14 percent in the following month.

Burton Malkiel, whose 1973 investment text “A Random Walk Down Wall Street” argued that price movements aren’t predictable, says chart-based investing worsens returns.

“People who think they are going to make excess profits with technical analysis are kidding themselves,” Malkiel said in a telephone interview from Princeton, New Jersey. “Most of the people who say this is pretty good have some ax to grind.”

Traders shouldn’t use charts without other technical data, and choosing the most appropriate ones can both mitigate losses and produce gains, said Katie Townshend Stockton, chief market technician at Greenwich, Connecticut-based MKM Partners LLC.

Cut Losses

Each of the eight strategies would have cut losses for investors benchmarked to the S&P 500. The directional movement indicator and the moving average convergence/divergence indicator flashed signals that made money even during the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.

Directional movement is a theory developed by J. Welles Wilder in 1978 that measures how far a security moves from an average price range calculated from second to second. The system is designed to gauge who is more eager to trade a security, buyers or sellers.

The so-called DMI generated a gain of 24 percent. The moving average convergence/divergence indicator, which bases trades on the difference between 12- and 26-day moving averages, provided profits of $25,896 from a $100,000 investment.

In both strategies, the signals that directed traders to sell and then short the S&P 500 made more money than their buy signals lost. Short sellers typically borrow shares from a brokerage and then sell them on a bet they will be able to repurchase the stock at a lower price.

Value Investors

Returns also exceeded those of many who follow the principles of value investing, the practice popularized by Warren Buffett, the billionaire chairman of Omaha, Nebraska- based Berkshire Hathaway Inc. He searches for the cheapest companies relative to earnings or assets.

Buffett told shareholders at Berkshire’s annual meeting on May 2 that “many” U.S. stocks have fallen to levels where they are cheap relative to their intrinsic value. He said the housing market is the biggest drag on the economy and remains “very hard” to forecast.

Bill Miller, whose Legg Mason Value Trust beat the S&P 500 for a record 15 straight years through 2005, produced a loss of 72 percent, including dividends, during the bear market.

David Dreman was fired this year by Deutsche Bank AG’s asset management unit after his flagship $2.62 billion DWS Dreman High Return Equity Fund lost 65 percent. Both managers piled into stocks such as Freddie Mac and American International Group Inc., misjudging the severity of the financial meltdown.

‘A Little Misleading’

“It’s a little misleading to be looking at any indicator in a vacuum,” said MKM’s Stockton. “It’s a matter of knowing which ones to combine and knowing what environment you’re in.”

None of the technical indicators produced a bigger return than S&P 500’s 30 percent rally from its 12-year low on March 9.

Five sent signals that have resulted in losses of between 1.9 percent and 8.3 percent during the eight-week climb, which added $2.29 trillion to the value of U.S. equities, data compiled by Bloomberg show. The Williams %R indicator, which calculates the difference between a security’s closing price and its highest price and then compares the result with its average over 14 days, handed traders who heeded its buy and sell signals an $8,286 loss on $100,000 invested at the trough.

Only one technical indicator, moving average convergence/divergence, made money for investors during both the bear market and the subsequent rebound.

“Some of the indicators might work at given times, but that’s not where I put my odds,” said PNC’s Stone, a certified market technician who learned to read charts on the trading floor of Salomon Brothers Inc. in the early 1990s. “You zigged when you should have zagged.”
TAWorkOrNot.JPG

To contact the reporters on this story: Michael Tsang in New York at mtsang1@bloomberg.net; Eric Martin in New York at emartin21@bloomberg.net.
Last Updated: May 4, 2009 00:32 EDT
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发表于 2009-5-4 07:47 PM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 CoolMax 于 2009-5-4 20:49 编辑

热烈欢迎大牛到胡同来写『每日报告』
邻居们,跟贴欢迎啊!
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发表于 2009-5-4 07:48 PM | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2009-5-4 07:48 PM | 显示全部楼层
nice point, thanks.
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 楼主| 发表于 2009-5-4 07:54 PM | 显示全部楼层
别,我不是什么大牛,而且我也没时间每天写日记,
不过我还是很赞赏你能够每天坚持的,我就没有这个恒心,
所以很多时候也做错了,不能日省吾身。

Again,这个不是Chanllege anything,只不过是讨论讨论。

3# CoolMax
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发表于 2009-5-4 07:55 PM | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2009-5-4 08:10 PM | 显示全部楼层
股市本来就是难以预测的。。。
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发表于 2009-5-4 08:16 PM | 显示全部楼层
a very good point to all of us. too rationale doesn't work here.
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发表于 2009-5-4 08:23 PM | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2009-5-4 08:27 PM | 显示全部楼层
提示: 该帖被管理员或版主屏蔽
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发表于 2009-5-4 08:28 PM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 bayliner1979 于 2009-5-4 21:29 编辑

不管是MA线也好,RSI也好,其实我发现还是不如option & stock interaction analysis准,因为做stock的大户全玩option来hedge自己的货真价实的positions,这个过程中它们倒不太会考虑什么MA,RSI的.
缺点是option分布一般要到当月OE2个星期内才明了算数。
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发表于 2009-5-4 08:28 PM | 显示全部楼层
 
所以很多时候也做错了,不能日省吾身。
walstudio 发表于 2009-5-4 20:54

能周省吾身,月省吾身者,都能成HH。共勉。
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发表于 2009-5-4 08:29 PM | 显示全部楼层
Ding
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发表于 2009-5-4 08:39 PM | 显示全部楼层
thanks
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发表于 2009-5-4 08:40 PM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 yam 于 2009-5-4 21:50 编辑

如果没有蛇大和CoolMax的每日复盘分析,很多人对大盘及大多数个股的走势是没法把握的。而且,对于MM不顾TA,执意做高,CoolMax也早已意识到,开始喊近期做个股了:好的个股,大盘涨,会涨得更多,大盘跌,好的个股不一定跟着跌。相信很多HTer这几日应该都很有斩获吧,俺就是其中之一。(从资源-->航运----〉煤气--〉地产---〉赌场---〉咖啡-〉......)

下面把CoolMax的今天的复盘小结再重复一下:

“Ok,说得更明白一些,大盘现在我是看不懂了,TA说要跌(包括大幅回调),它不肯跌,我也没有办法,复盘本来就是针对大盘的,所以就把证据列出来,大家自己判断。
To play safe,大盘及大盘ETF我是没胆子追高了。距离200天均线也就是一两天的路程。近期做个股更安全,好的个股,大盘涨,会涨得更多,不会错过什么。大盘跌,好的个股不一定跟着跌。今天手上的个股涨幅远远超过大盘的涨幅。
抱歉我不能推荐个股,需要你自己做功课。”
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发表于 2009-5-4 08:41 PM | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 marketguy 于 2009-5-4 21:42 编辑
热烈欢迎大牛到胡同来写『每日报告』
邻居们,跟贴欢迎啊!
CoolMax 发表于 2009-5-4 20:47

海纳百川,有容奶大! 顶酷玛!
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发表于 2009-5-4 08:42 PM | 显示全部楼层
我可以给你个专用制顶的帖子,你可以每天写一句你的看法,这个时间总有吧。
半年后回头再看,那个时候让大家来膜拜你。




我就是那个4月中发文说你的TA太教课书的,现在另外3个礼拜过去,市场还是没有按照你想的走,
原文在这, http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/Stock/31804907.html

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---------------------------------------- ...
walstudio 发表于 2009-5-4 20:41
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发表于 2009-5-4 08:44 PM | 显示全部楼层
我可以给你个专用制顶的帖子,你可以每天写一句你的看法,这个时间总有吧。
半年后回头再看,那个时候让大家来膜拜你。

oldfairy 发表于 2009-5-4 21:42


这个办法好!很公平,也民主
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wahaa 该用户已被删除
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